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Feast of Crispian Wisconsin Veterans Chamber of Commerce

How Drama and Theatrical Arts Help Veterans to Heal

Over 400 years later, William Shakespeare is still having an impact on our world, and often, in unexpected places.

Feast of Crispian is a groundbreaking Wisconsin-based nonprofit organization that empowers veterans to use stage acting as an outlet for expression.

From feastofcrispian.org:

Feast of Crispian strengthens the personal emotional resources available to military veterans, their families, and others who are navigating trauma using the practice and skills of theatre combined with the timeless themes and imagistic language of Shakespeare. The heart of this resource is gained through experiential exploring and expressing personal stories through the words of these plays and utilizing the collaborative practice of theatre to deepen the emotional resources needed for healthy relationships and a satisfying life.

We were honored to welcome FoC Executive Director Mark Ard and Co-Founder Nancy Smith-Watson to our weekly live stream to discuss the founding, development, and immense impact of this outstanding nonprofit organization.

Listen to our conversation via the Wisconsin Veterans Forward Podcast (in 3 parts), or watch the full video below:

PART 1:

PART 2:

PART 3:

VIDEO:

Full Interview Transcript:

Ep 97-99, Dec. 2021:

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

Today on Wisconsin veterans forward, post traumatic stress is a big deal. I don't have to tell all of you that we're all familiar with the, with the metrics and the numbers, and yeah, they've shifted over time, you know, the 22 a day you know, we're, we're increasingly talking about mental health concerns, not just for combat veterans, but also folks that go through transition, stress, separation, stress, family members that are away from there loved ones while they're deployed and having to deal with those very real stressors. And the traumas from that, I mean, there's, there's a wide, there's a wide range of, of, of causes for posttraumatic stress. There's a wide range of things that are associated with the military and military life and just the, you know, the, the the industry of, of defense and arms that, that can lead to trauma for family and for service members.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

It's an, it's an unfortunate reality of of the military. Now, what doesn't have to be an unfortunate reality is how we handle and respond to the mental health issues that our service men and women and their family members and their caretakers endure by virtue of their service. And we have failed as a country. We have failed 22 a day is a disgrace 12 a day 10 a day, two a day is a disgrace. How many of those people were left hanging? And you can't, you can't save all of them, but we need to do better. And that's why organizations like the, like the organization. We're gonna talk about today. Many nonprofit organizations, government support organizations, community organizations, pop up and exist to fill those gaps, to bridge the gap where the department of defense, where VA, where states programs where federal programs, where all of them miss the mark, there are some excellent targeted nonprofit organizations that fill that gap.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

And often in very creative ways, cuz not every service member experiences, the same trauma, not every service member experiences, the same post traumatic stress, if at all and not every service member can cope with those stressors in the same way or heal from those stressors in the same way. So our response to these issues needs to be as varied as the issues that we are seeking to address, right? That's where the targeted nature of nonprofits is so important, especially in the veteran space. It seems like every other day, every night there's a new nonprofit that pops up that it's like, we're helping veterans. We're the hero, freedom, friendship coalition of us, you know? And then you ask 'em so what do you do? We help veterans. Okay. Where everywhere. Okay. What do you help 'em with? I don't know, whatever they need. Swamp w nonprofit fit, fail. And the reason why that's a huge problem is because that takes donor funding away from the targeted good ones.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

And then let's say I'm a donor. And I donate to the freedom, Patriot friendship fund of america.com. I give them $10,000 because they have a good looking in website and a good video. I give them all sorts of money and then they fail. They, they don't accomplish anything cause they're not targeted, which happens more often than not. I don't get stewarded as a donor. I don't get maintained and retained as a donor. And all of a sudden I'm disenfranchised and won't donate to all other veterans serving organizations because in my mind, it's broken, the system is broken. Nonprofits are broken. The, the, the, the non-targeted generic nonprofit organizations are a problem, but we're not talking about that today. It's arts month. And today we have as a guest, two folk that work for a very excellent, very targeted nonprofit organization from right here in our backyard, in Southeastern Wisconsin, they do outstanding work in the area of using theatrical and dramatic arts to have help veterans heal and cope with the stressors of posttraumatic stress and the, the post service trauma.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

And in specific Shakespeare Shakespearean acting stage acting theater to help them heal. It's an incredible thing. Talk about targeted. It's locationally bound. It's very specific it's unique and they help thousands. They help so many, they've helped so many people in their illustrious tenure. I can't wait for you to hear more about it. I really can't. So we're gonna dive into it right after this, you are listening to Wisconsin veterans forward. Wisconsin's premier audio resource for veterans, military families, veteran owned and veteran friendly businesses. Wisconsin veterans forward is brought to you by the Wisconsin veterans chamber of commerce@wiveteranschamber.org act, touch my face. A feel the say, if you couldn't tell, I have very strong opinions about the state of the veteran nonprofits throughout the United States. Very strong opinions is what it is. I am who I am, you know Hey, before we dive in and I introduce you to our distinguished guests no matter what you're watching on YouTube, we have our first YouTube comment.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

I'm pretty sure it was just a bot. So Rebecca, if you want to clarify whatever that was, feel free to do that. Otherwise I'm not gonna put it up on the screen. <Laugh> just a series of punctuations and uppercase letters, but whatever you're watching through LinkedIn or Facebook, YouTube, or if you're like our one Twitch follower most of you are gonna be watching by a LinkedIn. That's just where our audience is, but feel free to drop something in the comments, ask question. Cause these folks are extremely knowledgeable in this subject and without further ado, happy to introduce our good friends, mark and Nancy from feast of crisp folks. Sorry for the long introduction I get, I get spun up.

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

You this man, a great introduction.

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

Thank

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

You. You're you're you're too kind. Well, I enjoy, I enjoy the, the two of you. I enjoy feast of Crispian what you do. I'm a fan of, of your organization. So why don't you tell us each of you maybe we'll start with Nancy first. Yeah. What's what is your role within feast of Crispian and what is

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

Oh my gosh, we do we have, like, what did you say? Three, four hours. <Laugh>

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

That's a big, that's a big question. Yeah. <laugh> in a

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

Nutshell, I love talking about it. But it, it's always really hard to describe what we do because I'm sure there's a bunch of people out there right now, when you said in particular Shakespeare that are going, what wait, what? Yeah. And even after 10 years of doing this, I still find it really difficult to completely describe what it is that we do. But we are actors in theater practitioners who take acting skills. And in particular, the stories and language of Shakespeare into veteran communities as use of, for PTSD mitigation is the, is the target. We don't have any kind of entrance criteria or anything like that. So any veteran can come and join, actually, you know, we're happy to have anybody in any kind of traumatized community come into it. It's just a really amazing way. And, and we could, there's, there's kind of two major. There's a lot of things, but there's two major things that, that why we do work. So powerfully one is because the tight unit comradery of theater is such a good replica of what people miss out of the military. They really miss that comradery. The second part of it is the O the opportunity because anybody who has,

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

Oh, you got muted there for a second. I think he bumped your microphone. Now we can't hear you still, I don't know what happened. I felt like I heard the sound of somebody nudging a microphone and then, and then out you went, oh, now still can't here. I'll let you troubleshoot that on, on your end and you, and you can, oh, there you're. Gotcha. Oh, got me again. Yeah, don't move. I got

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

Move here. Okay. So I said the comradery and the mm-hmm <affirmative> the second, the second part of it is the opportunity to take, I started to say anybody who has any kind of, any kind of stress, but in particular PTSD, the, one of the things that really limits your ability to have a really successful and fulfilling life is this, these overwhelming emotions are no emotions, right? There's these two places that PTSD takes you into and by using Shakespeare, which, and, and I can go into that a little bit later about the particulars of why we use Shakespeare is very, very unique in the way that it works in the brain and the way that it allows us to get really big with emotions in a really safe way, but the idea that they don't have to use their own story, they don't even have to use their own emotions. We're totally cool with people just as I put it at making the shapes of emotions, getting up and moving their bodies and using their voice and raising their voice and allowing them to, to experiment with big emotions in a way that they don't, they don't have to bring any of their own stuff into it is just incredibly freeing and it actually does get in, and it, it, it kind of loops some of their own emotion up and allows them to blow off some steam.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

That's a, that's a, that's a great summation and you're right. I do. My next question was gonna be why Shakespeare, but before we dive into that, mark the newly minted executive director, I just found out before the call that he's the new, the new executive direct the head honcho of feast of Crispian as of like two days ago.

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

Yeah. I just found out too.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

<Laugh> well, first off, congratulations. Well deserved mark, and I go way back, this is a guy that knows his stuff, for sure. So, so what do you do now being the guy that well, executive directors do it all, so maybe a more accurate question would be what don't you do. Yeah. Or like they would, they would be easier to answer cuz you probably have to do it all, but what do you do with feast of crisp and what brought you to feast?

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

Oh, okay. Well thanks for that. And so basically what I do, I do a lot of the background administrative work and the grant writing a lot of the fundraising, of course as the, I'm just getting my shoes on as the executive director and all of those all the duties that come along with that. So I'm not exactly sure what that's gonna entail my guess is it's gonna be more administrative responsibilities tied with you know, making sure that the revenue streams are where they need to be. And the reporting are, are where they need to be at.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

It's all the fun

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

Stuff, basically. Yeah. All the fun stuff. But basically my, my focus is to make sure that the practitioners and the veterans have the resources and everything that they need the practitioners particularly to go out there and work with the veterans and provide this amazing service to them. So that's really what the, the focus of what I do is

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

So, so what brought you to feast then? Cuz it existed before you were there, like you joined it in progress, right? Or you the founding members

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

Or yeah. You know, my first exposure to feast to Crispian was many years ago before I even considered doing anything working with them or anything. I was at actually at a local collect TiVo with a mutual friend of ours actually mark flower. Oh yeah.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

You love mark.

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

Yeah, you bet. And he introduced me to Nancy and bill and Jim while they were working on some scene, work in the back and I thought it was very really innovative. But I didn't really ever see myself actually plugging into it in any kinda way until years after the fact. I just happened Nancy had invited me out of her persistence and I'm always appreciative to Nancy with her persistence on that because it really opened up a whole other world that I had never thought that I would be a part of, of to come to one of the weekend intensives. And during those conversations it just came up that, Hey, we're looking for a grant writer. And I said, well, I've done that. And they were like, you're hired. So, and then it just it kind of snowballed into what it is today. So so yeah. I'm really grateful for that.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

And before you got more entrenched in the admin work in keeping the organization humming and the lights on and whatnot, were you a, a member, were you somebody who took the stage and, and no. No,

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

Never. And I, I you know, I was a, I'm a Marine veteran. I never would've imagined that I would ever be doing Shakespeare. I mean, aside from, you know, I think it's very important for anyone who is going to be doing the background and supportive work and working with funders and everything you really need to know and understand what it is that you're advocating for. Right. so I think it, you know, it was really important that I got in there and actually did some of the scene work. I actually did back, was it 2019? We produced the the first ever national on veteran theater festival here, local where we brought in a group of, or several groups of veteran orientated theater groups put on a three to four day festival. And of course Feasta, Crispian had our original piece in there it's called and and come save home, which I had a small part in.

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

And which was amazing. So I actually have the experience of doing the scene work, working like with Nancy said with working with big emotions, which, you know veterans have some big emotions. And you know, and I'll tell you, and I've, this is part power for my elevator speech. I usually give it didn't really come home or, or land for me the power of what this organization brings to the veteran community. It wasn't until I was in front of that audience at the rep theater. And I just got done with my little scene with another veteran, with Casio Andago and you know it, you know, the Shakespeare allowed me to, to focus and, and funnel all of this passion and, and energy that I have from, from my military experience.

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

And, and just from a lot of the frustrations of, of the veteran experience into that character. And you know, I just let it loose. And instead of getting this feedback, which I know Adam you can relate to, and I think most all veterans can relate to. Usually the feedback that you get from family, from counselors, from doctors, from, from community at large is, you know, we appreciate, and thank you very much for your service, all of that window, addressing anecdotal stuff that comes along with it, but we don't, you know? Yeah. We, we, we really don't wanna take in so much of what your stories are because it's can be very intense. Right. but, you know, I can't, I don't fault them for that. So in other words, what I'm saying is that there isn't really a mechanism or a platform with which veterans can really unload and Nancy I'm sure will get into this more their stories and share them without people kind of retracting and, and getting kind of put off by it.

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

But here, when I, when I, when I was actually able to let loose into the character and really let it go, instead of that kind of, you know, Hey, mark, you know, calm down, go take your pills, or, you know, go to the bar like your grandfathers did and just, you know, be a man and drink it off. Instead of that kind of negative feedback, I got a standing ovation, which in my mind really just completely inverted the relationship to the, of the veteran to the community, because here was it moved place where you brought the veteran community and the community at large together, plus you also have Shakespeare as this kind of buffer where the veteran can feel comfortable enough to describe their stories and tell their stories without actually telling their stories. We have veterans that have some just unbelievable stories that, you know like we have one guy who never can actually tell his story. He always is saying it in the third person and always is kind of tip around the two us, because it is so intense and so painful. Not imagine. Yeah. Yeah. Shakespeare allows him to say it without actually saying it and get the catharsis I effect out it. So, so yeah, I think it's just a, a very innovative thing. I couldn't be happier to be a part of it.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

I do wanna talk more about just the impact that you've seen in the of transformation you've seen in some of the people that have engaged in and also witnessed your, your programming and, and, and your performances. But I want to ask Nancy, I want to get to that question. That's been in the back of my head, why Shakespeare, what prompted Shakespeare of all things and, and why connect that to people dealing with posttraumatic stress?

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

Yeah. And difficult for me to, to sum it up concisely because it's such a, you know, why we're here is the, the, the three founders and, and facilitators that bring this me and bill and Jim is because Shakespeare was so much that way for us, it was just so powerful in our lives. And what I usually say is like most people who go into the arts in, in any form of the arts, most people, not everybody, but most people are there to work out. There's there to process some kind of, of trauma that they've had in the past. It's just a, a, a way of expressing it, like kind of like what mark says without getting negative feedback for actually saying I went through this trauma. And so you, you put it out there in image and, and beauty essentially. And Shakespeare was just something that did that for us.

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

It just, it, it really expressed so many things for us and got us deeply in touch with our own humanity when we were doing Shakespeare speaking, those really incredible words. But there's that aspect of it that, that it's it's, the stories are really, are really so pertinent to everything that we are still working with as out as the human race. Right. But also in Shakespeare's day, most people were in, most men were in the military at some point. And so that, that military under current is, is a huge part. So many, even, even in the comedies, so many of the comedies, like much I do about nothing, they are just coming back from war. And it's about that idea of how, what, what do we do now as we're back from war and, and we're gonna, you know, get, have romance and, and be in these, this, this really wonderful. Now we're gonna have this wonderful life. Right. Right.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

Well, and it's, it's incredible how, unfortunately, war has been such a large part of, you know, humanity in, in, if you look at our media you know, what we read what we listen to, what we see in the movies and on the stage and whatnot, there's always an undercurrent of, you know, maybe not directly like a war movie, but during the period of world war II or during the period of Vietnam or during the period, everything seems to be framed that, that way. Yeah. So, so you

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

So you have that's continuum. Go ahead. I'm just gonna, I'm just saying you're exactly right. Cuz it's the continuum of that. We just had a veteran this morning in our, we have a class over at the VA on Wednesday mornings and we had somebody this morning talking about how this work makes him feel, not alone when he, when he does this work, he realizes that other people have felt this way forever.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

And so right. Oh yeah. It's, it's, it's, it is tied to tied to the human condition. You know, unfortunately war is, war is never a good thing and yeah, it's just some kinda reality of our, of our world, unfortunately. So, so you had experience you and the other founders with Shakespeare and the, the kind of transformative and healing power of Shakespearean acting. So what, what bridged the gap between that and you founding feast of crisp and a, you know, a, a nonprofit serves predominantly veterans dealing with post traumatic stress. Like what, what, what bridged the gap there?

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

Well, that, that idea of what it had done for us, we thought why not? And there are, there are other examples of things that, that people working with Shakespeare and other ways like those Shakespeare and the prisons has been and going on for, you know, decades. Oh, I didn't know that the idea came and then yeah. Then through, through the I, through the years, there's just so much more amazing stuff about the way I, I can't get off this without Al also talking about the fact that another part of my background is that I'm a somatic body, the body work therapist as well. So I'm really interested in how the brain and the body work together and how we can harness that as, as a tool and in so many bits of cutting edge science over the last decade, we've seen how the language of Shakespeare is incredibly powerful in the brain.

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

It just works completely differently in the brain than, than everyday language. And that actually goes directly to helping the brain be, is in a different way for people who have PTSD. When, when you have PTSD, all the sensory parts of the brain are taken offline. They're not disconnected there. There's not a, there's not an injury there, but the in nature, if, if we're we're coping with something, will, will numb out the parts that are really causing us problems and, and hurting us and bothering and giving us bad feelings. And so those are all those sensory parts and that part of the brain goes offline when you're using metaphor. Like it you know, Shakespeare's poetry. And so it's just loaded with metaphor, which is that, that you're, you're comparing two, unlike things. So imagine comparing two, unlike things you have, have to go into the sensory parts of your brain and go, what's my experience with these two things that I can tie together that I can see some similarities in.

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

And when you, when you do that, you gently open up those parts of the brain again. So you're asking the sensory parts of their brain to come back online. And the thing about the sensory parts of the brain is it puts this little ripple of feeling in the body. You, you, you have a sensation in the body and it's usually, it's so small. It's not something that you're gonna be aware of, but it's there anything that goes on in the brain, the body participates in. And so what we want for them is to start to be able to access some of this feeling again and and, and open up the fact that then they can have some, there's a possibility for good feelings to happen as well. And to process out the, the feel and, and I've really come to the point where I don't even like to call it good and bad feelings anymore because all of the emotions are so important to, to our life really

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

Important. I learned something similar from watching Daniel tiger with my son. It's there's not, you know, all emotions are valid. Sometimes you feel two feelings at the same time and that's okay. Yeah. Big Daniel tiger fan over here. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> so as far as dealing with emotions is concerned, and, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna throw this one at mark. So if you have the typical stereotypical military veteran archetype, the average civilian can't really picture, you know, like you said, the tough and gruff deal with it, go to the bar, handle it, pull yourself up by your bootstraps and, you know, like, just deal with how do you get them, first of all, interested in Shakespearean theater. And then how do you get 'em to go on agent open up? That's gotta be like

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

Challenging. Well, I think that kind of coattails to the outset of this podcast when you were mentioning the 22 suicides a day. And I also think that tied into that, you know, well you know, the definition of insanity is, you know, doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result. Yeah. So we have these suicides every day, but we keep doing these same interventions or we, you know the culture hasn't adjusted. So veterans continue to just keep going to the bar suppressing all of those emotions, you know, and of course, you know, our culture is very militaristic. You know, and, you know, your experience in the military is, is in large part to de sensitized. You, you know, because you know, and of course, if you are a combat veteran or have been exposed in a combat environment, it just ex is exacerbated by several orders of magnitude mm-hmm <affirmative> mm-hmm <affirmative>. So you know, what was the question again, just,

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

How do you, how do you, how do you, well, one dealing with those issues to join you and get on stage and

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

Loose. They gotta see it, you know, and I think a large part is guys like me, or like you, other veterans of having that courage and making a decision that I'm not going to repeat the same mistakes, you know, where someone's gotta jump off of that wheel and and try something else for me personally. I mean, I, I I took all the pills. I've been through the PTs programs at the VA a couple times you know, so I've done everything that they said, and, and it didn't make me feel any better. In fact, it made me feel worse to be quite Frank. And that's not to disparage the VA or, or anything like that. That's not why we're here. But I do, it works

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

For some that that approach works for some people, but

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

Not everybody perfectly fine. I think that we can, you know, we don't have to put ourselves in a box. I think that what we do here at feast of course, is, you know, not the end all be all. It's not a panacea in that, in that regard, but I think as a supplement or as an alternate to the clinical side of things, because, you know, the clinical side of things is developed around a very Freudian functional, you know, input, output, diagnosis, treatment, you know, which is good for, for some people maybe that's effective. But I think for large part, there's a huge gap, which has to do with the more human and spiritual component of, of the veteran experience that I think we're, you know, the 20 to veteran suicides today. Look, if that model was so effective, we wouldn't have these outcomes.

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

Right, right. Oh yeah, absolutely. So we need to be more innovative in what Nancy and these guys have done here with FEA Crispian and other nonprofits that are very specific and focused. Like you mentioned earlier that, you know, that are valid and everything are trying to think outside that box. And that's exactly what I think we've done here. And I think it's incredibly potent and it has been for me, like it is completely blown, open a world of things for me that I never thought, cuz I was exactly that archetype. You mentioned, oh, you would've talked to me five, six years ago about, Hey man, let's go do Shakespeare. You, I would've just showed you you'd laughed. Would've reached out and said, you know, yeah, <laugh>, you know, I'm guy a Marine that's, that's not what I do, but that's, that's the ego side of things talk. And I think if other veterans see other veterans actually getting some benefit out of this then will affect the culture at large. And I think it is, I think it

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

Is, you know, I think the, the way that I, the way that I look at it, hearkening back to your, your previous point is the, the VA and the clinical end of things. That's a hammer. Yes. And not, not everybody's problems are nails. Well,

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

Like you say, if you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. Right. Right.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

Exactly. Some people's problems are, are nails. Yeah. Some people's problems are screws and you need a screwdriver. Sometimes, sometimes you need a hammer to tap the first part of a screw in, and then you need a screwdriver to finish it off or what, you know, like sometimes the tools need to a work together. Sometimes

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

You need Shakespeare.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

Sometimes you need, yeah, Shakespeare's a screwdriver.

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

I think it's, I think it's really interesting. I think we're in a very unique moment in this in time. And when as this goes, cause I think I do see a shift and, and I, you know, a shift in the consciousness of the veteran community, which I think will eventually affect the larger society, you know, because the veteran community is usually the, we're always the tip of the spirit. Doesn't matter if we're in the military or not in the military, you know people pay attention to the veterans man. And if they see veterans and they see the things that are working for them, well, then it can work for them too. So I think it's really opening the door to a lot of very, really good things.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

So let's talk about impact and I'll open this up to any of you, you know, you, you mentioned that the, the thing that gets, you know veterans who may be dealing with these issues to join up with your very important cause and to open up in a way that may be completely and utter foreign to them for their entire lives.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

Oh yeah. Is merely showing them. And so I guess my next question is, is, is what hurdles or speed bumps do you have between your mission and the end result and the impact? Is it just the word out? Is it a communications thing or are there other hurdles that you're dealing with as an organization that are preventing you from, from achieving your, your strategic vision?

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

Nancy, I'll let you take that in first. Yeah, I mean, I don't really know how to speak to that. You know, the first thing that pops into my head is, well, it's always, it's always money. There, there are certain things that you can throw money at that actually do get better. I wish that we had, we had a bigger community of theater practitioners who were, were way in line to come on board with us, that we're able to handle this particular kind of mission, which is very different than, than a lot of other things that, that we do as actors and theater practitioners. But really the, for me, it come, comes down to just getting people in the door. I mean, you're right. That once we've got people in the door and, and when, and the large portion of veterans that we work with, come out of residential programming in the VA situation. So as mark was talking about a, for a lot of those folks, they've hit the bottom of the barrel. They're mm-hmm <affirmative>, they don't know what to do at this point. Their, their lives are really overwhelmed by the things that are going on. And so when you say, come and do Shakespeare, they're like, whatever, I'll try anything. Yeah. I'll,

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

I'll try anything.

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

Yeah, that's right. And so we, what, what I say when I'm trying to talk someone into coming for the way weekend is just, just come and give it a try. And, and I find over and over again, that if they come Friday night, they will stay through the weekend. It, it's very rare for us to lose anybody and, and almost entirely the folks that come in on Friday night are going, I'm just gonna watch, I think this is dumb, but I'm gonna check about, and then they're really turned on by it very, very quickly by what goes on in the room by the, the the, the feeling that they get that of the, and, and we hear a lot of times when I'll say, what I'm, what's going on is I'm using the words that we are told, you know, they tell us, but they just feel such a freedom to be able to come in and, and to be not judged and to be you know, there's nobody sitting there with a chart that they're making notes on or any of that kind of thing. And they, they really have a sense of freedom into it. And so, yes, I mean, the, the, the thing we need is just the way of getting them in the room the first time. And once we get them in the room, they usually very quickly feel the benefits of what's going on for, for them there.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

I feel like, I feel like I could talk to you guys for another, for another half an hour, another hour. There's, there's just so much to discuss here, but oh, mark, were you about to make a point?

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

Yeah. It's just, just to kind of, Cotail what Nancy just said, you know, and how do we, you know, the strategy of like, you know, how do we get to the veteran community at large mm-hmm <affirmative> and, you know, how does that equate then to getting reciprocity in terms of donations and everything? Something that I didn't re I had didn't know and learned until I got on board with Fu Gring was the history of theater, and maybe Nancy, you came back me up on this, but the history of theater goes all the way back to the Peloponnesian war, right?

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

The Greeks, the pers Persian war, the Persian

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

Wars well that it was born out of returning soldiers and warriors. Is that right? Am I, am I

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

Yeah, I mean, the history of theater, as we know, it came out of the Persian wars where when a battle would be over and the, the warriors would come home, the entire community would gather and, and ESS came up with this way of putting their stories out for everybody to see so that the whole community could feel what they had been through and hear their whole thing. And, and the idea of that was then the entire community shared in the, all of the trials and tribulations of that. And that is something we have so lost. I didn't know.

Mark Ard, Feast of Crispian:

That's something, yeah. That's absolutely something, you know, when we talk about veterans transitioning, it's always just, well, here's a job and now you're good to go. What are you complaining about? You know? Yeah, yeah. So that component that she just, she just elucidated I think is, is a big piece of it that we've, we've been missing. And I think feast is, is part of that new, innovative is a, a function of, of actually providing that mechanism for, to bridge that gap between the veteran community and the larger community and everything. And I think it's also part of the myth story that we tell ourselves as veterans. You know, I think that if we were to include that, that theater, you know, because it goes through like, how do we convince some of these tough guys to come in and do Shakespeare? Right. Well, we remind them that, you know, it's a free beer at, out of that, you know, that, that changes the, the dynamic, the consciousness of it, you know what I mean? And then that will eventually, I think in my mind, at least will translate into donors, taking a much better, a harder get this,

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

You know, so, okay. So, and I was totally joking when I said free beer at the meetings there. Bad joke, but yeah, you said, how do you get the tough guys there? You know? Yeah. Free sandwiches or whatever. I don't know. But well, how does I, I don't wanna end, I feel like I have so many more question. I just wanna throw, throw, throw one more pen ultimate question that you hear how did COVID shape the progression of your organization? Because my assumption is that this is a very brick and mortar face to face in person thing. And if getting the word out to people, bull is how is your bread and butter and how you grow and scale and stay afloat as an organization that kind of took the rug out from underneath you, didn't it. And, and did it lead to any changes in your approach that persisted, or did you just hold on for dear life and wait for, for the bulk of it to be over? And obviously it's not over, but, but yeah.

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

Yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna speak to that and I'm even gonna use Sur Mark's part of it because I, one thing I do wanna say is that our local foundations were unbelievably supportive of us throughout COVID. It was really important to you know, we're, we get money from the be greater philanthropies and from the greater Milwaukee foundation, and both of them came through just so amazingly, because both of them really wanted to see this organization survive. You're absolutely right. That it is face to face it's. If we were to go virtual entirely for, from here on out, we'd be done. There there's, there's just no way of recreating what it is that we do in the room with people. However, that being said, there's always things that come out of these kinds of things that are really that, that have been really valuable, you know, COVID happened at the same time, the same time as the black lives matter protests were really, really ramping up.

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

And that really pushed us to look at a better way. And, and I don't have to tell you your, you know, your veteran community. I expect that people of color serve in the military at much higher rates than, than white people do. And so we are always looking for better ways of supporting our veterans that have specific needs in, in their identification as veterans. And, and we, we were able to hire theater, profess actors that are also people of color. And these are professional actors who are also veterans, and we hired them to do virtual classes that we're calling our safe spaces classes for black veterans only. And then we have one hopefully coming up in the spring for women veterans only. And so stuff comes out of it. We'll, we'll never give those up because tho those were so popular and so valuable. But yes, indeed what we, what we do needs to be done face to face. And I, I, I think that's, that's, you know, we're, we're, we're pack animals, we're human beings. We need each other, we need, we, that, that voice vibrating our body in the room and, and being able to impact

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

So well, perhaps perhaps in the future, when the metaverse ends up being a, a thing, and we're able to more accurately recreate the, the human experience virtually, but maybe a few years away in the meantime webinars and zoom don't have the same kind of magic. So I, I'm just, I'm, I'm glad to learn more about what you do and how you do it and kind of the impetus behind it. Just more and more impressed by your organization. Every time I, I get to know more people involved in it, I I've seen you performances from from feast of Crispian at our veterans light up the arts event that we have annually very moving, very important stuff. And so thank you for what you do. How can somebody see a performance? How can somebody get involved? How can somebody reach out to learn more about what you do <affirmative>?

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

Well, all of our past performances are on YouTube. They can just go and search Fe of Crispian on YouTube mm-hmm <affirmative>, and they can find even our most recent one from August. That was a really interesting and unique original production as well, that that focuses specifically on Vietnam veterans. Mm mm-hmm <affirmative> if they wanna get involved with us. And I, I do wanna say that our, our core work is our, our workshops that are held in the VA and sometimes outside the VA as well. And that's what we're really about because that's where it really gets down to supporting veterans. Those, the shows it's, I is a very big deal to commit to the, the time period and the stress and all of the stuff that goes on with putting on a full production. So that's a really narrow part of what we do, and that we think of that really as our outreach and going to the civilian population to educate them better on, on and, and actually, I don't even think educating is the thing is just to get them more comfortable, just interacting with veterans and talking to them.

Nancy Smith-Watson, Feast of Crispian:

Right. but for our real work, any veteran, any time is welcome to come to our workshops. We just had one canceled because of COVID, but <laugh> but we'll be back on it and they should just go to our website www piece of crispian.org.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

And I got scrolling across the bottom now for those of you that wanna learn more or potentially donate to this very important, very targeted it's one of the best us to the best in the state of Wisconsin. And we're, we're proud to call you guys friends. So I'll ask you to hang on the line for just one minute. Nancy, mark. Thank you so much for your time today, folks, I love that one, man. I was a fan of this organization going into it, and I'm an even bigger fan. Now, this is so cool. And I think, think that the, the biggest takeaway for me, you know, I, I thought maybe maybe theater as a recreation as a way to escape from, you know, trauma and turmoil and stress, but that the connection that was the assumption I made going into it.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

But the connection that I didn't make was that it is empowers veterans to emote their very real emotions in a comfortable, safe environment, potentially using other people's story, using other people's words, using Shakespeare and using that foundation to get some very real stuff that's pent up out. That's amazing. And I never considered that before. There's so many great, man. This is why we do arts month. You like veterans at Wisconsin veterans chamber arts month. What, first of all, there's a lot of talent in the military and veteran community, very diverse community. You'd be surprised. We got musicians, actors, actresses V visual artists. We've got performers of all kinds, artists of all kinds in the military. We're not just a robotic hive mind sort of worker bees. Okay. We're diverse and strong and professional. And, and we have innovative ideas and insights and creativity that deserves to get shared with the world.

Adam Braatz, WVCC:

So that's the first one. And, and the, the, the second point is like, that's, it's a great opportunity to heal in any P in any discipline of the arts. Like we are talented. We deserve to share it with everybody. And we also deserve to not feel self-conscious about using that as an avenue for self-expression and healing, that whole tough guy thing, tough guy or tough gal. I was in the military. So, you know, we need to feel comfortable and encouraged to express ourselves, cuz if we can't do it, our lives are in danger as a community. And there are organizations like Fe of Christie that are really leading the charge. Couldn't have said it better myself. Well done. Other Adam, thank you for joining us. Matt, if you've listened to all 99 episodes of Wisconsin veterans forward, man, that's that sure is pretty cool. We appreciate y'all being part of this experiment. That is, that is starting to grow at a, at a very encouraging pace. So thank you for tuning in we're looking forward to episode 100 and episode 200 and episode 1000 and hecks. Sky's the limit folks. We'll see you next time. Thank you for joining us on Wisconsin veterans forward brought to you by the Wisconsin veterans chamber of commerce. Please visit us@wiveteranschamber.org. Read our blog, sign up for our newsletter and buy us across all social media platforms.

 

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